Satellites in Action - Advancing Autonomy, Security, and Data for a Resilient Future

Welcome to the unDavos Summit - A community-organized series of interactive panels, talks, and networking taking place in Davos, Switzerland - and online - in parallel to the World Economic Forum’s Annual Meeting 20-24 Jan 2025. Our mission is threefold: 

• Democratizing Davos: We open the doors to diverse voices and ideas, breaking down traditional barriers to participation.  
• Humanizing Davos: We foster genuine, relationship-driven connections that go beyond transactional networking.  
• Bringing Action to Davos: We turn meaningful discussions into tangible, real-world solutions.

Join us for our dynamic panel titled "Satellites in Action: Advancing Autonomy, Security, and Data for a Resilient Future." This engaging session will explore how advancements in spacecraft autonomy, satellite technologies, and secure data infrastructures are reshaping industries and addressing global challenges. Our distinguished panelists will share valuable insights on real-time environmental monitoring, secure communication networks, and optimized renewable energy systems, all while connecting autonomy, artificial intelligence, and post-quantum security.

Featured panelists include:

• Michelle Del Valle, CEO & Founder of FinSat Inc.: A leader in resource and insurance markets with a unique blend of expertise in aerospace technology and weather intelligence.
• Kristi Bradford, Managing Director at Pragmatic Frontiers: A technology strategist and developer of investment strategies focused on the space sector with extensive experience in autonomous systems.
• Joe Landon, Space & Defense Investor and Entrepreneur: Co-founder of a stealth-mode company innovating in spacecraft autonomy, bringing years of executive experience from Lockheed Martin.
• Christoph Wildfeuer, Professor of Post-Quantum Cybersecurity at FHNW University: A prominent researcher in quantum technologies and secure satellite communication protocols.

This comprehensive session equips delegates with actionable insights and tools to position their organizations at the forefront of the dual-use and space tech industries, driving future growth and innovation.

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Transcript

Satellites in Action - Advancing Autonomy, Security, and Data for a Resilient Future - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B816d-ndV5A

Transcript:
(00:01) [Music] all right so we're really ready to get started this panel ready all right so today we're here to discuss satellites in action advancing autonomy security and data for a resilient future I'm Michelle delv I am the moderator today I'm CEO of finat a weather intelligence platform focused on development and monitoring and measuring uh solar assets as well as water and agriculture um I'm ready to introduce the panelists and uh I'll let youall introduce yourselves this is chrisy Joe and Kristoff and uh amazing uh technologists here in the
(00:47) space sector uh I'm Christy Bradford uh I spent the first decade of my career as an instrument systems engineer which is a very Niche area of engineering that specializes in the translation between uh what scientists need and what Engineers should go build uh I then uh realized pretty early in my career that that those processes you can apply to any end user besides just scientists uh and so I started applying in a business context of understanding customers and knowing how to build systems uh that are tied to those uh which then led me uh to
(01:20) work at incel where I worked very closely uh with the US government to understand their technology needs and then went down into the commercial Market to invest in uh the best technology companies uh to bring uh into the US government uh since leaving inel uh I have been running my own consulting company working with early stage startups uh investors uh and uh government organizations uh continuing to basically build the bridge between end users uh and Engineers hi everyone thanks for coming I'm Joe Landon I'm currently co-founder
(01:56) of a new space uh spacecraft autonomy company uh start my career at Boeing in the commercial satellite business then spent about 10 years as an entrepreneur and investor in the commercial space sector was co-founder of space angels and then Christian actually worked together at a company called planetary resources focused on Space resources uh later I went on to loed Martin where as vice president for advanced programs development managing a portfolio of Technology Investments for a billion doll annual uh um portfolio of
(02:26) commercial and civil space uh business and I also managed the business development and strategy uh function for the commercial and civil space business at locki Martin uh I left uh locki to start a company called Crescent space which is a wholly owned subsidiary of lockade focus on lunar infrastructure and now uh as I mentioned I've moved on to another uh startup uh just a glutton for punishment um working on spacecraft autonomy I'm really interested in in uh spacecraft the space economy uh in general uh human space flight and
(02:57) robotic space exploration so hopefully we have time to take uh question questions from the audience uh on topics like that thanks okay last but not least I'm I'm Christof ILO I'm uh representing Academia 90% And 10% uh company small company that's uh in uh developing software for for satellites it's called Ataris and uh I'm a professor at the University of applied sciences Northwestern Switzerland that is uh 20 kilometers off of uh SU uh we have a School of Engineering and en environmental science and uh my uh work
(03:35) is on mostly on Quantum Technologies uh and satellites uh in in the we have um projects that are funded by the European Space Agency for instance that investigate how to um to um bring endtoend Quantum safe security to satellites um and uh so uh hopefully I'll can talk a little bit about this and about my experience together with startups and um and um to uh try to to make um the future Quantum safe perfect well thank you all and thank you all for being here today um so to frame this conversation we really want to First just discuss what age and
(04:23) epic we're in we're in the age of information um building networks and that's what satellites do and and so our panel here today are experts in really making it happen happen keeping satellites deployed keeping them uh in orbit and uh there are some interesting technologies that are being used across this panel to make sure data is secured and we have autonomous systems specifically to focus on inorbit um uh uh servicing and um focused on specifically making sure we have the right data links Down to Earth for
(04:59) applications like what we use at finset which is specifically we use a lot of weather data and satellite data for our risk Mo monitoring and that really helps us uh Focus uh in on our business cases so without further Ado I would like to ask Joe a few questions um you have a plethora of expertise um lot of ventures in uh space all the way from lunar infrastructure to asteroid mining uh to running specifically commercial commercial and National Security space missions at Loi so I have a question about operational efficiency and
(05:38) autonomous systems for scaling satellites we see that satellites are scaling um every year I mean I think in terms of the leaders SpaceX uh and starlink uh and starlink is actually connecting us in remote region so that helps us uh help uh the agricultural sector and small uh uh remote sections but I'm curious just to know specifically how do you make satellites scalable in space because if we have a network in space but nobody's there to actually uh fix anything but what are your ideas around that so my specific question is how are
(06:19) Ai and autonomy uh Technologies transforming space operations and enabling entirely new types of missions yeah so thanks Michelle so to addressed the specific question about how do we use autonomy uh to scale space operations I think there's two challenges that need to be met for large constellations of spacecraft and you know we're talking about thousands or tens of thousands of spacecraft in a single constellation so just like all space missions you have to deal with longer time delays than you do uh necessarily uh communicating between um
(06:52) terminals on Earth so in order to respond uh and to get commands and to respond in a timely fashion you need to put some of the decision- making in space because you can't be necessarily waiting for those signals um to travel back and forth between Earth and space uh when we're talking about tens of thousands of satellites um you also you know have to have um decision- making uh in place because of the scale uh they need to be able to make decisions they need to coordinate with each other and speak to each other the satellites so
(07:21) autonomy plays a role in that I think there's other uh opportunities to make New Missions um that um where you can have uh spacecraft operate together as a swarm or or as a collective uh to do missions like very large uh sensor arrays or very large Communications arrays like phas aray antennas um being able to um coordinate those types of missions uh is really interesting application of of autonomy yeah it's really really interesting and I just I keep coming back to the picture of a blanket and a network so we all have our phones and
(07:53) just a giant Network so I'm curious I want to pass it off to Kristoff um and in ter terms of secure data transmission if you're talking about swarms and I'm just going to snowball question so if I'm uh uh wrong tell me if I'm wrong but how do you ensure that the downlink communications to Earth um Mission operations on Earth or in space uh satellite to satellite are secure um in the next 10 years um there somebody brought up a specifically a uh a point of uh fear for the future about uh quantum somebody having the first
(08:30) quantum computer and I think it's really good point just to uh understand true autonomy right um I mean we heard from the previous speaker from natto that this uh is one of the biggest fears to uh stay secure when a quantum computer comes about and uh is is able to to um to hack the current encryption algorithms uh so well the there there's a long answer um and I'd like to to to try to um establish a sense of how how complex this is I mean if you talk about Nat and actually there's so many different systems that have to to
(09:20) interconnect that also use different protocols and different software and in all of them you have to uh enable new algorithm that are stronger than the currently used algorithms like RSA or elliptic curve toon uh key exchange mechanisms and so you have to and and and these uh satellite constellations 40,000 plus everyone has to share a key with everyone and um so if you want to enable end to end uh encryption this is a a big task uh so so on on the one hand uh in our project uh with Isa we we try to investigate public key infrastructure
(10:04) for space missions because I mean we already use it uh on the ground very successfully uh when you have this client server application when you put do online banking on all that why not use the same system in space but the caveat the problem is currently that there's all these algorithms the public key algorithms um asymmetric cryptography is not supposed to be Quantum safe uh so you have to actually uh replace uh the algorithms with stronger algorithms which are currently um there's a competition um and there's a transition
(10:42) phase to postquantum cryptography led by the National Institute of Standards and technology in the US and um and uh there's already some guidelines and so so we we basically put in these new algorithms and um try to enable public key INF structure for space uh also the ground system have have have to be different because you mentioned the latencies and all these uh problems also satellites are actually U constrained in size weight and power so you have flying embedded system small small computers and these new algorithms
(11:19) they require quite of more computing power in memory so all that together is is quite the task so I only just heard a number that uh NSA is requiring the transition to postquantum cryptography by 2031 so all computers of NSA should are supposed to be cap capable of of running the new postquantum algorithms in 2031 that's well that's on the ground and well we also want to go to space with that and so so it's it's quite the task uh and and it's it's actually right now everyone is working on it and obviously I mean for for smaller missions you have
(12:06) um you have encryption algorithms symmetric encryption algorithm that are already supposed to be Quantum safe um uh but um for instance the advanced encryption standard with with with a 256bit key key length will is is uh supposed to be Quantum safe because symmetric algorithms are not so vulnerable to Quantum attacks than the asymmetric algorithms um but this becomes maybe too technical on so so there's and then we um the colleague mentioned about uh qkd Quantum key distribution which is a different sort of encryption which requires a dedicated
(12:50) Quantum Channel and dedicated Hardware so you cannot run this on standard uh embedded systems anymore you have to have Quantum read Hardware that can receive photons and and lasers and so so all of that is kind of uh a complex scenario it it is complex and I'm I'm really curious to because this is like a really great defined use case and um chrisy here is a really really great systems engineer and has really broken apart a lot of these really technical challenges and made them uh possible but I'm curious to know your background and
(13:25) expertise or just uh uh with this this case scenario what what do you think and how how could you potentially scale this and monetize this we don't seem like we have a lot of time to get this done but what do you think yeah well I think uh to both of the the points that have already been made by the panelists is when you're talking about constellations of satellites and uh the coordination across an entire constellation and uh the secure communication that is needed for that coordination um one of the challenges that you have whether it's
(13:56) for the company itself or for the investors looking at these companies is that you're dealing with a highly multi-disciplinary problem uh because not only do you need uh the knowledge of aerospace engineering you also need uh Quantum knowledge but you uh also just need cyber security knowledge uh and then the RF knowledge if you're using RF uh laser knowledge if you're using lasers uh but also uh if you go with something like lasers you know have an uh attitude determination control problems now you need more advanced
(14:26) subsystems on your satellite uh and that's just on the space segment and then you also have complexity on the ground segment and historically the space sector has been terrible at paying attention to the ground segment and so um it it's becoming more and more important for the space sector to pay attention to the ground segment because uh the space networks are starting to become directly connected to to terrestrial networks and so that opens up a whole new potential attack surface uh that these companies need to be
(14:55) thinking about and so you're dealing with a a level of complexity that I I think um is new both uh to the space sector itself uh but also to the investors that are looking at the sector and I will say one of the biggest challenges I see across the space sector albe it's one that is luckily being addressed is that things like security uh are an afterthought they are not taught as part of uh space systems engineering um instead it is you're taught about all these other things you have to think about for a satellite and
(15:25) then it gets up there and then it's like oh yeah by the way you need to secure it and so security of satellites needs to be uh integrated into how we think about space systems engineering as a whole yeah it it makes a a lot of sense and and so I I want to frame it and uh for my business case so when we talk to insurance companies there's a big push for smart contracts and then and then you know how do you have security around that so um it you know it really brings this interesting use case for Quantum to be interwoven at this stage um but the
(15:59) cost cost barrier in terms of talent and uh R&D going into it who's going to frontload that cost will it be defense um well based on what I have seen is a lot of companies uh are sort of doing the bare minimum from a security perspective just to be able to get government contracts uh but honestly those companies if they want to get to the point of having programs of record uh they're going to have to take their security a lot more seriously but part of the challenge is that good security is not just a software problem it's also
(16:31) a hardware problem and uh so you can't do it after you've already launched you got to be dealing with it uh ahead of time and so I think we're going to have to see a paradigm shift for a lot of these early stage uh companies that are launching these uh satellites to thinking about security a lot earlier if they want to get onto those programs of record and it brings an interesting point especially like from the commercialization uh perspective so I know that uh the US has from a US perspective has made a big push uh to
(17:04) really lean on the commercial sector for fast iteration and so I want to kind of ask Joe a question in terms of your uh startup within loate um how did that go ho H how do you see this um kind of cross-section between you know using defense dollars I know uh Dan earlier was talking about specific yes defense really front uh front loads all of the investment cost in R&D but how do you see that as an Avenue maybe like a systems integrator within um you know big primes yeah I think you know defense uh and space tech companies need
(17:44) to really have a little bit of both worlds where you know it's helpful to you know relevant to the security problem when we were building the locked subsidiary it was really helpful to have the entire locky Martin history and knowledge of cyber security in compliance with government rules available to to us CU a lot of small companies don't have that it's a really big Challenge and cost to be able to just meet the requirements which are probably not even adequate uh as as chrisy was saying um but what big companies are looking to do is to
(18:10) innovate faster and and be more commerciall like in how fast they can bring Technologies to Market and how fast they can respond uh to customer admission needs so companies like SpaceX and derill are doing a really good job at that some of the um uh Legacy defense primes are still trying to figure out ways to reinvent themselves uh so that they can innovate faster okay I think um this leads it lends a really great point to cyber security in space um and uh as we have a a load of uh satellites going up there and what are what are the challenges
(18:48) across the board do we see in terms of cyber security in space how do we think that uh um using Hardware integrated uh postquantum um structures and I would love if you really highlighted more on that because you said that at the tail end there how how will that help is the physical Hardware Key um to keeping our Network secure and keeping us online yeah uh by the way just a remark I mean all old satellites usually don't even encrypt the data uh they just authenticate the the commands telecommands and and and and uh and on
(19:30) the other on on the other side all the new you know Nano satellites and Cube sets they can't afford it and so they also don't encrypt so there's a big only I I I assume only the you know big observation satellites from Isa or or the US satellites and defense satellites they they can afford uh decent encryption and uh so yeah I mean back back back to your question certainly um we we um have some research projects that actually um well funded by Isa but then you also like to to to to propose it propose it to the defense companies or
(20:14) government military uh which is a a little bit tricky because I mean it's Public Funding from Isa you you must not use uh this uh to to sell it to to U defense sector but but I mean we gain knowledge and the knowledge we can then keep obviously and make something different not the same but something different uh and yeah I mean we develop for instance um very compact uh implementations of these new public key algorithms the quantum safe public key algorithms that run on on small embedded systems like fpgas if we even make as6
(20:54) uh to support these algorithms that they can execute very quickly and on on small hardware and and with little amount of energy so there's uh maybe you you just need a few Watts you know and uh so this is this is our research uh or my my research group that currently works on on such uh systems that then can also be deployed on on satellit so we actually use commercial platforms uh like from stylings we use fbga small ones that usually used for onboard computers of Civilian normal satellites and and then we'll we'll put them on on drones and
(21:35) try on high altitude balloons even and and try it out before before it goes on a satellite yeah so I mean Hardware Hardware is has an essential role uh because only with dedicated Hardware you you reach the performance and and the size wde ow constraints you cannot just put the um one of these new algorithms on on on a CPU uh and it just consumes too much power so you need dedicated hardware for it yeah Ju Just to build on a number of things that you said um 100% uh agree with everything um that was just said but I I will say there has
(22:19) been a push at least within the US for more uh commercial satellite operators to start doing some basic encryption which is a very good thing uh for a number of different reasons uh and I would say like my recommendation to any space company out there is uh at a minimum do AES 256 encryption and do it not just on your uh payload data uh do it on your uh tracking Telemetry and Control Data as well uh because that's another uh Trend that I have seen is that some data gets encrypted but not all data that's going to in from the
(22:53) spacecraft is being encrypted and these days everyone should be doing at least a 256 but that's a near-term solution for the longer term problem which is figuring out the postquantum encryption uh but given what you said about NSA preparing for that for 2031 that means it's going to be even longer for the commercial sector to get there uh but I think given just the cultural challenge around space cyber security uh that I've seen over the past decade Step One is let's just get some basic encryption in there first and we can deal with
(23:31) postquantum encryption once we at least have basic encryption across all satellites and um one follow-up question there do you see an uptick in uh the commercial sector for ventures in cyber security for space um well so that's actually a really interesting question and it's one that uh I have worked with cyber security colleagues on for a number of years and uh I I would say the vast majority of cyber security challenges in space are not unique to space so it really is not necessarily going to be dedicated space cyber
(24:06) security companies it's going to be more um educating cyber security companies on what's unique about space and then how to translate their solutions to space context and from what I've seen uh the best analogy is looking at Internet of Things security so iot security has a lot of the same challenges as space security or satellite security and so uh a lot of what's been done in terms of cyber security around iot should be portable over into space and that's really driven by the fact that when you're dealing with satellites or you're
(24:38) dealing with iot devices you have limited compute and so there's certain cyber security options that you can use uh on Earth in large Enterprise systems that just doesn't translate to iot into space but what works in iot is often going to work for space and just to make make it make sense for me because I understand iot networks but uh the swarm networks of satellites is that can you just uh think of it the exact same way in terms of connectivity I mean to a certain extent it depends on sort of the specific uh
(25:08) networking approaches but if you think about it as like a mesh Network um you know mesh networks in aesal context are going to have a lot of similarities with a mesh Network in a space context uh and so it's just a matter of sort of porting that technology and and understanding if there are any nuances that need to be addressed okay cool thank you and uh talking about Hardware I'm I'm curious to note from Joe in addition to enabling New Missions how do autonomous in space assembly um for space uh crafts reconfigurability reshape the economics
(25:44) and operational dynamics of space missions particularly in areas like cost reduction or Mission flexibility and before you answer it is a really important thing to note that space is a really really great test bed for efficiency scalability only if you are sustainable I me we have redundant systems in space and it's just a really really great uh uh leader for us uh and to uh rework our systems as we evolve with our systems on Earth so yeah yeah so so on that I think there's you know different types of efficiency and I think one of the the
(26:25) type of efficiency that matters most or often matters you know very much in space our our Mass efficiency and volume efficiency because we have to fit everything that we build uh on earth into a rocket and then launch it into space so and The Innovation with that my new company is is is building on is you know if we can modularize some or all of spacecraft uh we can get better uh volume efficiency in a uh by putting pieces uh densely stacked densely packed into a rocket even you know even if we have really big Rockets it's this still
(26:56) uh helps efficiency and then we get to space we can use those building blocks to assemble um larger structures and more complex structures so we don't have to build something on Earth fold it up like a piece of origami fit it into a spacecraft and then unfold it in space let's build spacecraft in more modular fashion so we can build larger and more complex structures uh that are also um uh you get along with that modularity you get flexibility and resilience you can reconfigure spacecraft in orbit uh and you can um recover from failures by
(27:27) uh swapping out parts or or reconfiguring you know for a new Mission it's it's super interesting it reminds me I was at the um I was at the Luxembourg uh uh space uh it was a space Finance event at the consulate in New York and and there was a company and I believe it's a Luxe company that does satellites I forget his name I know his face but they were he was talking about this uh modular structures honeycomb structure and and using that to uh build structures in space and this was uh uh I believe for building blocks for lunar
(28:03) base or something like that I mean uh but I'm curious to know just an example so we can kind of Envision it because I think sometimes uh for me um because I'm so uh Downstream from yall is is just to better understand how it works are we talking like a a an assistant up there that you know an attendant uh that you know then uh you can Pro you know remote in I don't I'm kind there's different ways to do uh sort of construction in space one is to have robotic arms uh you can to move things around you could use uh propulsive
(28:37) elements propulsion or thrusters to move things around and reconfigure things or you know there's those other ways to do it as well um using uh electrostatic forces electromagnetic forces so there's ways to uh move things around in space that we really can't use as effectively on Earth and we should take advantage of that unique microgravity environment and vacuum environment uh to try and and develop new Technologies to do it oh interesting okay cool and what challenges did you see um with your previous experiences that and and just
(29:07) colleagues in the industry are having in space um uh you Austin specifically uh um when uh his uh it I remember that they had a was it star poop uh got lost in oh are you talking about starfish space yeah starfish space yeah yeah um so uh I think you're referring to their otter pup Mission otter pup yeah yeah and so I will say that that uh they had a a major anomaly on that mission but then did a really masterful job of then recovering from it um but relating that back to what Joe was just saying um one of the most important things for
(29:50) things like reconfigurable satellites or What starfish is working on which is satellite servicing um is uh the need for rendu and proximity operations um and I think that's an area where uh we're seeing a lot of innovation and it's probably one of the most exciting areas in the space sector right now and I think it's going to be um a key area from an autonomy perspective uh because uh the more autonomous RPO can become uh the lower cost it's going to be for satellite servicing and the more economically viable it becomes and then
(30:21) the more proliferated it can become uh and I think that's good both from a commercial standpoint uh but also uh potentially from a national security standpoint albe it it also comes with some challenges from a national security standpoint uh but uh it will I think be a paradigm shift um in terms of how we think about on orbit operations uh and what's really possible uh in space as these uh Technologies mature and so starfish space is is a great example um of a company that is solving a software problem but looks like a hardware
(30:53) company yeah yeah thank you thank you for that um yeah this is a this is a really really great uh time that I I want to kind of circle in on where we're at today and in terms of connectivity at Davos and it being a really great point for us to connect from all over the world and I'm curious just to know from a global space perspective where do we see um each of us going in in our domains in our uh home countries but also globally together for the future of of space like what what do yall want to see and what what do you
(31:31) see in the next 5 10 years and we'll shortterm it yeah uh well I could probably talk for about an hour on that I know it's exciting this is the whole point well and what I will say is part of the reason it would probably take an hour or longer is that um I really think to fully understand where space is headed we have to not talk about it as a monolith because there's so many different Subs sectors within space and each one of them uh could just be a panel unto itself um so I cannot talk about all of them right now but I will
(32:04) say one of the areas uh that I am most excited about is uh the potential for inspace manufacturing um and where I think that is headed and in particular uh there's a number of companies uh coming online with uh lowcost down Mass capability um and I think that becomes a real GameChanger for um in space manufacturing and when you pair that with what is also happening in commercial space stations um the both human rated commercial space stations as well as purely robotic uh space stations such as what V Space is
(32:35) doing and you combine that then with down Mass capability um the infrastructure is now in place for I think a lot more innovation in inspace manufacturing and I think that's going to be one of the most interesting areas for bringing more non-space companies uh into really leveraging the benefits of the space environment perfect thank you yeah and I I agree with all that I'll take it a different direction talking about global space copper cooperation I think a big opportunity that I'm excited about is a is the Artemis Accords and
(33:03) lunar exploration the Artemis Accords is a framework for peaceful and sustainable exploration of the Moon i' I've actually lost track of how many countries have signed Artemis Accords now but it's it's many I mean 50 or 60 I think um and it it is a way for all nations big and small to get involved in the exploration of the Moon and later uh onto Mars as well uh and has been a really successful effort to really coales uh and and build a an architecture uh where all different um countries and Global actors of
(33:34) different capabilities and different maturity in their space programs can play a role but what do you what do you see it looking like on the moon like like envisioning it uh and like where in terms of architecture what did visually what would it look like like I know uh specifically Dan's company is going to have gas stations the next big oil company but what would it look I think you know at first what we saw this year was the first uh commercial lunar uh landing and it was a NASA program to uh buy uh commercial service deliv of cargo
(34:08) delivery to the moon so like it's going to start it's starting there and uh the focus of the Artemis program is on the South Pole because that uh there's water resource there at the South Pole which uh the reason that is you can use water to sustain human exploration and to uh create and um fuel for for gas stations on the moon to enable explor a of the Moon and also farther into the solar system I also just have to add to that I think eventually what the moon will look like yeah is Las Vegas no no okay then
(34:40) I'm not going oh no there's I have a a h whole analogy I've developed over the past few years I my hometown I live in Las Vegas my hometown is Las Vegas it is a great misunderstood City uh but I I will just say uh the three markets that made Las Vegas the city it is today civil government funding National Security Government funding and tourism well and resources uh what are the markets that are likely going to emerge on the moon same markets same markets so I think we will be building Las Vegas on the moon hot take I I can
(35:18) add to that so so I was uh asked about uh contributing in a phase zero study by from Isa to put Wi-Fi on the moon uh in a Quantum Safeway so so basically the astronauts need Wi-Fi right and and you would send um maybe the um the data with Optical links Optical Backle links on and uh so a combination from um Optical communication and and Wi-Fi so I think uh I can support that I can see that that there's some habitats and some some shows going on and Wi-Fi of of course uh yeah so uh I I can add to to to the perspective of of of of Switzerland
(36:05) actually in this sector so Switzerland has a lot of small and medium siiz companies that uh contribute in the space sector and I mean we have very strong universities like University of b that provides uh um actually provided I I heard the the first experiment for the first moonlanding uh so they had some kind of particle experiment so that was actually actually deployed even before before the American flag U so so I mean Switzerland is kind of very very engaged in in in these missions uh worldwide missions but
(36:44) uh on the other hand um it's Switzerland is too small to to do it by themselves so so we have uh strong contribution with Isa so also Switzerland is not uh in the EU EU but but it's it's a contributor a strong contributor to to ISA and so we have all all the space mission are usually kind of um Isa missions larger Isa missions and um and in and Switzerland is very strong in in cryptography so we have this crypto Valley in TK so a lot of blockchain companies there and so also um companies that provide um encryption services for government
(37:31) and Military um I think some of you might have heard uh about some some um some things in the past uh not not too too good things about but but well Switzerland had its fair share of of of scandals about cryptography so they they sold um um encryption devices to to some uh countries um that are uh not so friendly and and uh put in back doors uh in collaboration with the US so um anyway so um I don't expand on that uh here but so so the to summarize I think space the space sector uh Switzerland provides very good
(38:19) infrastructure for space companies uh but we have U not not very much Public Funding for that so so it's uh venture capital is is almost non-existing I from my point of view it's it's very hard to get and so so my funding only comes from from Public Funding from organization like EU Horizon Isa or this with National Fund and all that and that that is obviously Public Funding that you cannot spend for for or you shouldn't well get to much into toel use well maybe there's a deal to be made with orbit Fab maybe you could create a
(38:58) crypto uh currency transactions for gas station on the moon I'm just kidding but I want to open it up to questions and uh we have time for like a couple questions does anybody have questions for our panelists I'll okay I have to be so proud of you as first of all being a friend of mine but that's you know spatially empowered is the question so when we look at the human organism and the gut biome and then the food and the ability to thrive on the moon so my question is how do we optimize that and what are some of the lessons we may that
(39:48) you predict and could be beneficial for us from the Moon back down so that's number one number two I know that through some of the work that I was doing in the Middle East that we also have some opportunity of some technology that can innovate and activate building energy from the Moon that would be beneficial back down here on Earth so um is there any insights about sort of that Duality instead of us thinking we're going it's also how is it going to give us something back thank you uh I I'll uh take that one first first um so
(40:29) uh a thought experiment that I do all the time is I think of just a random thing we do on Earth and then I add in space to the end of it and then I think through what it would take to do that thing in space um and uh what I have found is basically every time I do that if I then go uh do a Google search of that afterwards someone has already thought about it um and so things like agriculture in space food in space um there's already a ton of research that's been done um I mean there's things out there like uh how to design
(40:58) coffee cups for drinking coffee in space um and so uh I I actually would say that when it comes to the intersection of sort of Bio RIT large in space um there's so much potential both in terms of uh adapting what we already do on Earth uh for use in space but also just in terms of uh you know medical research that is happening in space that then allows us to inform and increase their understanding of the human body and microbiomes and how the space environment can change the interactions there um and so I personally uh super
(41:38) supportive and bullish on uh more bio rated Research In Space because it's something that not only can help us longterm with the expansion into space as as Humanity but it also helps us understand uh how we work on Earth and how uh how we can really better understand Earth and um so I will say when I think about sort of space investment r large um my thesis looks Way Beyond uh traditional space companies and I do uh investments into biomedical companies as well uh because pretty much every biomedical company uh
(42:17) has some sort of connection to space um if some of them just don't know it yet thank you I agree very much anybody else with a question space ZZ I just want to add to that I was a bio I am a biomedical engineer by training um and I think it is a a it is something unless we only want robots uh on the moon which uh fine cool uh no Vegas but no Vegas uh but if we want people there uh you know I have a really good friend his name is Grant Anderson for uh from Paragon space and he was talking about we we talk shop a
(42:56) lot about bio medical phenomena in space um and you need the data I mean come on how many astronauts have been Joe how many astronauts have been in space you would know the answer to this on this panel uh but the the data is not there you know you need you need to put sensors and and have a way to collect as much data when they're up in orbit um our bodies in terms of microbiomes are very very dependent on your uh on your surroundings which impact your EP genetic factors I mean just coming here to Switzerland I mean my lips are dry my
(43:33) hair is dry it's a little stressed out because this is a very important conference so you know my cortisol levels are high I'm hyper adrenaline um but and that all impacts my microbiome so in space a a complete stressed environment you're going to have changes not only to your epigenetics that'll impact your genetics and then your future um generation so so uh that is something that needs to be studied and tested rapidly in space uh and through uh all this age of information collecting data we can do it but that's
(44:09) I I want to see that happen more but axum's doing some cool stuff um anybody else have any questions yeah yeah I already have a mic oh here no yeah thanks um so um marello um mountainx uh dual use defense and Aerospace VC fund um short comment and a question um we as a VC fund we see the need for a space technology to to be if as possible debugged on the earth you know so the company that's working on on colonization of the Mars Mars you know before spending 150 million million dollar and just finding out it doesn't
(44:59) work we would prefer them to do something on Earth at least as a source of Revenue at least to pay the electricity in the meantime you know uh before uh before really go to to Mars which is which is fine so um question um my view on that is that uh European Space Agency NASA Italian space agency and so on should be working more on uh ideas and a proof of concept for example what you mentioned you know um monitoring of uh um of humans in space because there is no commercial value as of today for that while the commercial
(45:40) companies should be working on uh on implementation that that will bring to to immediate commercialization for example uh flying to to space um molecules in order to have the growth for um for for for biofarma Industries there's a commercial demand for that so I honestly don't see a reason why European Space Agency should Finance those kind of project when there is a commercial demand for this so so I'm curious uh what do you think about this split between you know public spending versus commercial spending including start
(46:20) startup scale UPS or or even bigger companies thanks yeah just just a quick answer I think you're I think you're right the balances you know government funding is limited and scarce so it needs to go to um activities that push the state-ofthe-art and aren't commercially viable yet uh to but with with a view towards enabling commercial uh investment later so I think that's the right uh the right framework to think about it yeah I would just add to that that anything that's basic research government should be funding uh anything
(46:46) that's development commercial should be funding anything that's applied research uh kind of a gray area and so you're going to have a little bit of a mix of both um but I do think that it's uh you know specifically with companies where uh there's thres applications and space applications I think it's really important uh that a lot of these space companies uh actually stop and think about the terrestrial applications and in fact uh the advice I give to every startup that I advise in the space sector is uh don't brand yourself as a
(47:17) space company um and part of that is because their technology is absolutely applicable to other things besides space it's actually so true I I started out as a space company and I don't brand myself as a space company unless I'm with my space uh colleagues but uh it's it's super true if you want Vegas to happen on the moon you need to look at Earth as a template and kind of see how we interact with each other how we build things and and make it relevant to people uh we deal with the uh real estate and uh and specifically insurance
(47:49) companies but they use space technology just like everybody else does here today with your phones so thank you all so much for this lovely panel and for being here and uh yeah we're ready for questions we'll take it outside thanks [Applause] [Music]