Equity or Tokens? - An Outlook for Investments in Digital Assets

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Join us for the "Digital Assets Davos 2025" panel titled "Equity or Tokens? - An Outlook for Investments in Digital Assets." This session dissects the compelling landscape of digital assets, focusing on the vital decisions investors face when choosing between equity or token investments. With insights on risks, opportunities, and best practices from industry leaders, this panel is essential for venture capitalists and anyone interested in the future of digital finance. Get ready to explore market predictions and strategies that will shape your investment approach in the evolving crypto world.

Our esteemed panel features:

- Magnus Jones, CEO and Founder of the European Web3 Organization, an international thought leader in blockchain with over a decade of experience. Magnus has been instrumental in developing taxation guidelines for DeFi and NFTs, and he advises various organizations, from startups to governments.

- Anna Tutova, CEO of Coinstelegram, a prominent public speaker on digital assets committed to educating global audiences about the crypto space. She co-produced the film "Decentralized - No Matter What," showcasing the shift from traditional currencies to digital assets.

- Ebba Theding, Co-founder and CEO of 4+Ventures, brings over 20 years of leadership experience and a passion for blockchain innovation aimed at building trust and security in a digital-first world.

- Sheraz Ahmed, Managing Partner of STORM Partners, leads a professional services firm dedicated to blockchain and is a Global Shaper of the World Economic Forum, focused on collaborative change in the Web3 space.

- Stefan Becker, Founder of CryptoShorts Advisory and known as "The Devil Investor," delivers bold insights through his provocative podcast, challenging industry norms with a disruptive perspective on finance and technology.

Don't miss this chance to gain invaluable insights into the future of digital assets. 

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Transcript

(00:01) [Music] okay warm welcome everyone and everyone who's outside also please feel free to come on in is it more people we welcome we are now going to talk about a Hot Topic currently of investing in this joyful landscape that we are dealing with either from the VC side in IE the companies and equity in itself and a project or in the tokens SL shitcoins or whatever precedent coins we might experience over the next days so by that we have a great panel of us we have had a little challenge due to the DeVos traffic so we have a beautiful swap here
(00:55) in the end but I'll just pass the word forward now so I'll let all of you introduce yourself and you can say just briefer about your project and what you do and what we will discuss further we will go into so if you start Lisa if you good morning everyone super excited to be here my name is liisa I'm working for coiners E largest digital asset manager we manage 8 billion and we are the first isser of ETF in Bitcoin so today I'm going to bring my experience by talking with institutional investors what is their sentiment what what are
(01:30) they thinking about tokenization and I'm hoping that you know it sens your mind as well okay thank you uh so I'm EBA theing and I'm CEO and co-founder of a venture Builder investor studio called four plus Ventures and to explain what that means in our terms it's we co-build we find a good entrepreneurs who build stuff co-build with them and then we also invest in what they're doing so we're active owners and we're interested in basically everything that is well lucrative in the long run I suppose so that could be both equity and
(02:06) tokens and that's what we're investing in wonderful thank you uh my name is shz Ahmed I'm the managing partner of storm Partners been active in this industry for the past eight years uh stor Partners is a Professional Services firm we structure and grow web through ecosystems um and so we've seen as a little bit of a strategic management consultancy firm we did one one of the largest m&as uh in this space $7.
(02:28) 2 billion merger between Singularity net ocean protocol and fetch uh we've worked on quite a few interesting strategic deals so maybe taking uh equity and tokens from a bit more of a macro perspective here today morning everyone my name is anatol also known as da Sasha uh I run uh a regulated Quant uh multi strategy hedge fund out of London uh prior to that was with JP and Goldman and essentially the mission of our fund is to bring uh institutional grade Market neutral Solutions into crypto space control volatility and extract Alpha from the
(03:07) market so I'm crypto shorts and as everyone is like super institutional I'm more like here for the fun and entertainment part and uh don't trust my advice I question everything that I say um you might do the same with all the others because I know them pretty well um I too well too well um so I have an advisory firm but I also do uh entertainment education running podcast and end of the year investment is coming back so and uh I don't know I I'm just I just keep talking till Magna says um you go you go I know I need to stop it man
(03:41) but I I'll let you actually start because I think what what we should start about is one of the Hot Topics here this uh this week actually and uh that's something that we also discussed on our panel yesterday where we had a more of the compliance side the panel covering MAA the markets and crypto asset regulations so naturally we were discussing the Hot Topic of the Millennia coin and also the Trump coin we concluded there by none of these uh projects are compliant according to European Now new regulations of the M
(04:16) that's what we concluded on clearly uh the FSA that was also present there wouldn't uh confirm or deny if they have issued an arrest order from the MAA police when Mr Trump if he is to come in here will land and arrive but putting that aside it's a serious part to it also because it's it's an element that affects this landscape clearly when one of the most influential people in the world is is doing this this kind of things and I think it would be interesting for people here to hear your views on it starting with which Stan and
(04:48) going up towards how you see this one in terms of is this one actually for good or for bad for industry in general um um I'm not I'm not a native speaker so I need I need to put it the front so you you would uh see me cursing quite a lot or hear me cursing quite a lot so uh what is what is my opinion on Trump and I'm talking about a token um it sucks talking about Melania um genius move um taking liquidity out of the uh out of the Trump token and moving it to Melania so um yeah well let's see what's next um and we had we disc had a discussion just
(05:28) outside uh my bet would be Eric but uh again like don't trust me don't trust me question everything so um from the data that I've seen uh moonshot onboarded uh I think 400,000 new people into crypto so is it a good thing might be yes um is it a drain for all the people that invested for sure so um I mean I guess like um if you're looking at Trump and Trump history and I'm nether Pro nor against Trump but basically he continues doing what he has always been doing enriching him himself and his family so from this
(06:02) perspective he has done an awesome job so uh kudos to him um and by the way who of you invested in Trump the token okay who who who of you so we have one lucky one but who of you would have love to invest in a trump token early in the beginning okay I see like um not so many or I mean you can I mean we're democracy so you can openly um raise your opinion I would have loved to invest take out the money and do something meaningful with that I'm super honest on that one so I guess like there's no black black or white on that one but um in general
(06:37) my opinion is um it it is doing more bad than good um money is wasted that could have been spent in in other projects um and just to to wrap it up um I would love to see another crypto winter um longer lasting washing out all the shitty projects that are basically not contributing any meaningful to anything except like making a few people Rich I'm good with that so I'm not against money I would always take it um if people are throwing at me but um yeah if you can deliver something we're good on that cool may may I interject yeah U
(07:15) just a kind of rebound off of the kind of crypto winter side I I I think if we look at consolidation um and wanting a crypto winter I think what we've seen over the past couple of years is that unfortunately crypto Winters haven't Swept Away some of the shitcoins or some of the uh Bad actors in the space um and I think uh we do need to look especially in the digital asset space or the crypto space at new ways to kind of get rid of uh Bad actors and not letting them blow up how yeah I I think it's it's a great
(07:43) question um there are ways where you can bad is a subjective term I think you can have actors that might not know what they're doing or how they're going to do it and put that in place consolidation can be a way through uh mergers we're seeing some great teams that didn't really find their over the past 3 four years and that um have come together let's say they were European team they've come together with an Asian team and they've merged their companies together and they had two different ideas around the same kind of line and
(08:12) two great minds come together and they were able to find some form of purpose I think that can be one way uh for some of the more let's say uh shitcoins Bad actors I think it's everyone in this room uh you all raised your hands and voted I don't know how many that honest uh kind of answers there were because I think if anyone can make quick money most people will it's kind of just a thing like that so maybe there's a way where we can self-regulate to a certain extent the whole kind of teruna FTX Scandal a lot of us in this room knew it
(08:41) was going to implode or explode um and none of us really did anything we didn't really speak out towards it we're just like okay I'm going to let everyone else kind of suffer whilst I don't but then we all ended up suffering as an industry so maybe there's things that we can do to self-regulate I know a lot of people were quite vocal on LinkedIn about kind of trump uh Melania there was some some good things there are some bad things but is it more bad than good than may we should just speak about the bad so that
(09:05) there's not more of that type of stuff that happens because I think it takes away from all of the beauty uh that is in the space because I think a lot of people especially retail are going to hurt and then it's retail that has the community sentiment that then kind of doesn't allow us to grow so well in the space so yeah I think self-regulation is a really big one for me and then from institutional point of view uh in our conversations uh across multiple larger locators who look at crypto as potential expansion Avenue the core questions
(09:34) always comes what's the value of the whole underlying uh ecosystem and of course you can argue and there is easy to build case transfer rails value transfer but then what comes on top that is being questioned right and mem coins do not help fundamentally all these large allocators they're trying to build a case to present to their board as to why they should be in crypto and things like Trump millania and other coins just undermined the whole the whole value proposition so from my perspective it does not add value and it sucks
(10:05) liquidity of course from the market creating the risk on the retail side as well as Market collapses there going to be some wave of liquidations and negative effect on the market can I give an additional perspective to that I think all the things youve said are very relevant and and interesting uh when I came into the blockchain and web three industry it was because I was totally amazed by what the technology could do I worked as a CFO for like I can't even say how many years because they probably me but I saw the potential of this as an
(10:33) automation tool and digitization Tool in general for every kind of business you would potentially do and I was doing that in the media industry which meant that when I came into the media industry we had this in Sweden where I come from television commercial didn't exist before then you had the you know internet came and you did a lot of online businesses and then you had the K's coming in the influencers and then you had the platforms and then you had the like uh programmatic purchases of media space and then you go into Ai and
(11:05) data now and now we're coming into crypto and web 3 which is the community building and now we have the meme coins so from that perspective when I'm thinking as an investor long term not just doing a quick Buck now because we all want to do that but that's I'm not fast enough for that I'm trying to look at the long so I think this is the next thing that is going to shape all our business models this is how we communicate with our community and Community is as we know very important for whatever you want to achieve so if I
(11:34) don't look at just Trump or Melania or whoever is doing mcoin I think the phenomena of doing that is a new vehicle for communicating and doing the business you want to do so if it's good or bad I think it I tend to think and this is I'm having a struggle with myself but today when I thought about I think maybe it's good because it's forwarding a new vehicle and a new tool for commercialization and building businesses that we didn't really have before and it's pretty potent right how much was it 47 billion and she did like
(12:05) 10 billion in a day it's got power right it's a very strong tool I know it's crazy so I think my takea away from this is that on the cycle of going from this way how we talk to our community and build our businesses we're pretty much going to have to you know whether you like it or not we're going to have to live with it so thinking as an investor I think how do we capture the the the this tool how do we use it who do how do we capitalize on it and how do we what businesses will will use this to and how do we make like progress so that's
(12:41) that's what I want to add to yeah maybe there's so I I I I agree I think maybe there's just a way to kind of segment and categorize I think the problem is that we put all crypto together and everybody sees the whole crypto industry as one and I think if you look at half of it is actually Bitcoin so one thing that I was mentioning for quite some time is just like okay bit coin should go and play with the commodity folks just go and check Bitcoin back where the kind of gold trades copper silver Etc and kind of take that out of coin market
(13:09) cap and you would be able to reflect and see a little bit better on the market share and then memec coins maybe could be in a different I don't know different type of categorization where if you look at coin market cap maybe it's just I don't know utility tokens or you have a way in which to screen the different types of tokens so that we're not putting meme coins with Bitcoin in the same pool because is although they might be using the same Baseline technology they're very different uh beasts maybe uh so maybe I add my
(13:38) perspective I think you said everything super valuable so as I said before I go to talk with a lot of family offices a lot of institutional clients and right now finally we're talking about why 1% or 4% in a portfolio make a sense to include in a 6040 however when it's a comes to tokenization or anything of this revolutionary topic there are three problems that I personally see the first the regulation uncertainity is missing until investors don't see that these tokens are regulated are safe that don't feel comfortable second Point education
(14:20) yes we understand Melania Trump but they don't get it they don't get how as anatalia said the value of the tokens until they don't understand again what is behind how they're working what's the purpose of that they're not going to invest and the third it's mindset approach so I'm talking personally to experts portfolio managers these people are so used to invest in alternative Investments like private Equity VCS hedge funds and for them it's going to be super super difficult to S the mindset so when you talk uh to them
(14:55) about tokenization of tokens it's like talking about I don't know a topic from Mars right so in my personal opinion it's a great technology it's going to be a revolution I agree with you we have to live with it but till we don't see the three changes for traditional investors it's going to be hard to enter in the market maybe notal you agree or I do okay perfect no when I think that that's what we clearly seen in general because if it's a meme coin in itself from a president or something else that's that's the fact of currently what is
(15:30) driving the market when you actually look at the numbers when you also saw of how the liquidity of trump was drained when Milan went up so it's not like it's new fresh uh money or crypto money so Melania sucked the liquidity out of out of you you can frame it in many kind of way that that was your words uh Stefan not mine but I think we all are aligned on on that one although it seems to me uh that unofficially it's two different teams that has done this projects so I don't believe they're too close in that
(15:59) bedroom actually uh that's go same goes for Trump and Melania it's but just rumors here so exactly but but I I think on on on this matter you know you you are pretty aligned on call it the view towards it more more or less here and what what we clearly see and you know I see it myself from being an advisory and I think you see it also uh Stefan that uh it is actually these meme coin projects that has the money and is driving the the the market to a certain degree uh because it's a core community that gather together that has lots of
(16:34) crypto Capital but if you look into it from the different point of view we could go through all altcoin sort of thing but if we take another case that is very relevant and and also today from the political point of view uh that's the Bitcoin itself core Bitcoin lifted up to another level here sort of saying what's your take on on Bitcoin in itself from the investment uh point of view uh Stefan in in both call it the shortterm perspective but also maybe a little longer for all of you going on all over here starting with you uh first first
(17:05) I'm starting with the with a usual disclaimer um no Financial advice here no uh yeah magnos will sented this claim around so um you have your lawyer on stage show so again like don't trust me question everything uh and and all the fancy stuff so my take on bitcoin um actually I like it as personal investment so that's my personal view um I'm super bullish long term on the industry and I guess that's something we probably agree on uh how do I see things playing out in the short term um for years now I'm framing it I'm
(17:39) shortterm short short long-term long probably that's also where my name crypto shorts uh came from because I short at Solana like like the and made like tons of money out of that don't ask me for investment I'm not investing um this year as the other ones deeper Pockets but I think um I I always have like the feeling okay it does it really make sense I mean I come from the Commodities world I'm former investment banker former family office guy um had my own mining operation in Africa so I always have bit of an issue like
(18:08) comparing uh Bitcoin to to the crypto gold or whatever kind of I like the narrative I like the narrative which might make sense from some perspective but um as we all said like it's a lot about marketing and um I think from from where I think makes sense to bring it to the Forefront of the head of the people so to to make people real realize there's something out there that they have like a reference point and um from what we said earlier and I guess all of us my my point is just like made me realize um everyone on the panel um did
(18:40) a shitty job and and why I'm saying this we did we all did a shitty job combined in educating the people so um telling people okay what is crypto about what is it we really doing what is it we want to change and uh I think Bitcoin was was actually um on track and what people mostly forget is like Bitcoin wasn't wasn't the first iteration so there were so many fails before Bitcoin became the success it is now so um I think it's a good thing and I guess it also addresses a bit like what what sheras and the other said is I was like okay give it
(19:13) some ad breze um let's see um how it plays out maybe now it's the time for for or maybe now the M m&a wave starts I don't know so but um from what I've seen um Bitcoin has been pretty consistent even though we're looking at the volatility over the the last days and weeks and how other tokens are driven I haven't seen this um in Bitcoin so yeah my take on that is um positive on bitcoin without giving any Financial advice can I follow on that not giving Financial advis I think what is interesting is when we're very
(19:50) interesting in complicated times and of course I think Bitcoin itself is like the first genius application of a new level of this operative system we call internet so it's like this Amic it's just a one cell first application proving the principle that you can do what we can do uh but I think also what's really exciting and and um I read I think was the crypto Bitcoin Swiss report where you can actually see and and I think this is a concept that we need to take to heart the concept of exponentiality where things uh you know
(20:24) together create something that makes it speed up in speed we're not going to have I think not an advice a linear curve I think it's going to be exponential and actually if you look backtrack to like the 2017 and the 2021 hype cycle and the cycle you see now the same movements they're kind of repeating themselves you get like six months of hype and then it dies but when it dies you keep building and it races and then it goes up and if you follow this curve and see how much money has come into the business it's actually exponential so if
(20:57) you would be a mathematician or Statia you would actually be able to historically check that this development has been exponential and from my you know trying to understand the world and make a bet as an investor I would say that if this curve and the exponentiality holds true then we're going to see Bitcoin go exponential too and that means like just for this wave would probably be up to like I mean double where we are now and that's that's not you know based on any what what time frame are we talking about was
(21:27) I just I'm just no I would say summer I mean it's crazy I don't don't trust me I don't know anything I'm just saying that the the curve we've seen so far the the movements of this seem to follow a pattern that pattern seems to be exponential exponential by now giving six months of hype or 10 to the summer I don't know I would I'm just guessing so okay I'll just just just quickly just quickly because I I feel like um Bitcoin um or the whole um blockchain ecosystem was never really challenged and challenged in a sense like we had
(22:01) probably the lowest interest rate for decades now so there was cheap money and there were like um lack lack of competition in um in investment terms so that's why so that's why I the feeling like I mean as much as I agree with you but also seeing challenges if we go back that's the best thing I mean I'm I'm I I would disagree with me um every other day any day of the week Happ to provide another kind of perspective it's bit maybe of a a siloed strategy or thought but um when not getting into to Trump and yeah of course kind of like
(22:35) saying myself I should have i s at kind of $12 when woke waking up in the morning I was like wow this is overvalued and likes and then went up to 75 I was like I could have gotten um and and I kind of had this traditional investor mindset I was like oh it doesn't make any sense it's irrational I kind of put it pushed it off the table um but I think one thing that I was reflecting on uh whilst in in St morit and speaking to some of the investors there that did make a decent amount ofy money on it they were like okay well
(23:00) look what was the core demographic for the launch the launch was mainly for Trump supporters which are retail in America and the likes when the the token launched it was only available on some Solana Dees and it was actually the amount of liquidity that was there came from the crypto folks but the demographic which was retail wasn't in there yet and then we saw a big spike when binance and coinbase ended up listing it right and so if I take the same um analogy and put it towards Bitcoin okay who's Bitcoin coin 's main
(23:29) uh demographic today well okay we have the audience in the room I think most of you will will own a little bit um you have the crypto folk you have some people around now you have some institutions VI the ETFs Etc that are kind of getting in but if you look at the core demographic and who is really waiting for it they're waiting for the US to kind of pull the trigger on better regulation maybe some central banks to kind of get in and a few others so I think if we're looking at Bitcoin strategy and we try to think okay um has
(23:59) it reached its potential in terms of purchasing power people that would like to purchase it I think today it's still under purchased from that standpoint so if I think we look at a price to supply ratio I think uh it is still undervalued just for the people who would want to buy it given a certain set of criteria haven't bought it yet so that's my perspective I think if we look on the changing demographics uh we I believe on the verge of significant change from retail to institutional allocator and what black crck Franklin Templeton
(24:32) and Fidelity did the last year really kind of reopening this market for institutional allocators is a GameChanger right so the ETF launched by black cro happened to be the most successful ETF launch in the history of ETFs which is roughly 35 years 11,000 or so ETFs launched and yet Bitcoin uh roughly accumulates over 50 billion in the first 12 months so what it means that uh many people in this room would own Bitcoin directly of course were're not that dependent on ETF as an instrument to access this uh this new
(25:07) asset class for people like uh you name it largest hedge funds uh wealth managers uh private Banks they need an instrument which is recognizable and they can book it on their on on their uh accounting systems which means this Market will be driven by these inflows coming from institutions and that will long long term Propel the price of Bitcoin at some stage there going to be a shift from uh BTC to other uh to to other crypto assets but this is restricted at this moment of time because of the regulatory structure we
(25:43) are in conversation with a bunch of allocators and what they can do potentially at this stage is Bitcoin and ethereum which is very limited right and they expect SEC and CFT change to come and potentially Drive much wider number of coins that can access that we're going to see perhaps some shift from Bitcoin to other assets but not for the foreseeable for for the next 12 months or or 24 months and BTC will remain the core asset for institutional allocators so I'm going to talk from portfolio management perspective because coin shes
(26:15) which today manag 9 billion in 2015 launched the first ETF at the time synthetic that was purchasable on a stock market in Stockholm so basically we have done this analysis of taking a 6040 folio taking out 2% from equities and 2% of bonds and see how a 4% in Bitcoin it's going to interact with the portfolio and the findings have been spectacular so what happens when you keep a 4% in portfolio of Bitcoin clearly volatility is high just uh to remind you 10 years ago volatility was 250% now we're talking about lower than
(26:55) 50% anyway so we have what we have found that returns go three times upper but volatility goes up to 30% and R down go up to 40% and sharp ratio is below one and whoever manage money here we all know how sharp ratio above one is sexy right but then we have done another analysis we have rebalanced 4% Bitcoin in this portfolio every quarter and it has been a phenomenal finding because we have seen that returns still double but volatility increase by 100 basis point draw down as well and sharp ratio is above one so what is the summary of this
(27:38) findings that Bitcoin is a good investment as long as you rebalance it keep volatility in place and if you want to go even above this you can do dollar cost average technique so in my opinion keep Bitcoin put a small percentage feel comfortable and maybe you all seen but I have seen that officially Mid Bank size in Lugano in Geneva in Milano officially putting 1% Bitcoin so if banks are put in you shall do it as well that's it's that's counterintuitive that adding Bitcoin actually does not destroy your volatility in row down profile but
(28:17) you're absolutely right anything between three and 5% actually has by far more positive impact on the portfolio portfolio construction Without Really materially changing or impacting your draw down profile and black rock is actually on this mission to deliver this message to The Wider investment Community it takes time it's certainly kind of a learning process but ultimately as larger institutions engage that's going to create this permanent INF flow because there is a positive statistically significant data which
(28:49) proves positive effect of Bitcoin and we are getting getting close to an end there so I think it's it it's it's been very valid points you have erased it but we also have the the point of view from call it the core VC company point of view investment IE invest in the company versus the share like for example x infinity is a very popular game uh and they have lots of tokens Etc their own ecosystem however it's the company Sky Mavis that owns them that is in the back end so you know if they do uh stuff like a bunch of penguins or
(29:25) whatever and actually make you know uh physical Goods that will be sold at airports to whatever to cartoons or whatever it is actually Sky Mavis who gets all the income not necessity tokens that's just driven by the perception of it so we can be just as great of a value to you know own the the company stocks and shares and I from being an advisor is also also often giving sort of the option of having both or whatever so so finishing off I think it would be interesting if we hear from all of you what's your take in terms of uh in
(29:57) getting call it in into the stocks and shares of a project or the token side or both just very short now one one minute each yeah yeah okay show me the money so um most most of the people don't give a flying so um so do I I mean I come from a traditional um vcp world where you were expecting like to hold um equity for 10 years things have changed so dramatically and they're coming so many projects so my short take on this is a good mix equity um plus plus tokens uh and for for most of my VC friends it's basically the risk
(30:36) Play Because at a certain point like after six months you um break even on your asset allocation so that's um that's that's what I'm seeing and I'm not saying that's a good thing for all the projects out there so uh I'm certainly supportive of tokens as the new uh instrument accessing company value and Company cash flow if you think equities is a claim on the cash flow tokens can do exactly the same uh function uh Ser the same the same function in a more efficient manner you don't have to hold equities in a private
(31:11) form for 10 years ultimately listing them via IPO you can access a new project from day one via tokens would it be volatile of course would it going be are we going to see lots of speculation certainly so but ultimately leave it to the investors to make this decision right rather than restrict access to tokens for the sake of perceived protection and kind of force investment to access uh new companies only via equities so from my perspective tokens have a very positive fundamental impact on the new capital raising and uh
(31:44) evolution of capital markets uh and if I take just what you were saying in terms of let investors kind of invest in what they want we had a really great project that was investing by a security token which essentially just digitalized Equity uh which is legally viable here in uh in Switzerland via primary and actually secondary Market issuance um and actually no investor wanted to touch them just because it was like a security token but what's the ROI it's like yeah it's like having equity and they were like no no we want utility tokens
(32:13) because of the potential liquidity events but also because uh they have a profit uh margin that's much higher so um actually um unfortunately I think in today's world yes you can offer a hybrid of equity and token but if you're looking at crypto investors specifically unless you have a token which has the promise of a high upside they're not really interested uh so much at least of what we're seeing okay so we are as a you know primarily Builders wanting to build Next Generation Tech Solutions and companies we of course have to do both we're in
(32:47) the intersection of equity web two and web 3 the tokens so basically what we do I mean one of the core problems that I and my colleagues and the people in the industry have been struggling is you know how much Central ation versus decentralization completely decentralized is difficult takes time and rarely you make more than a hit and then the project fails so we need to both have the equity side in the projects where we go in and stay close so we can have influence over what we're building and then we're hoping to make
(33:16) the token or we're investing in the token simultaneously because if we do a good Equity work that will hopefully lead to good token work too where we can bet on the Next Generation web three income like from marketplaces and secondary sales and transaction fees and everything so we pretty much do both yes yes boss I think is the answer um personally I have already entered in tokenization I'm going to share quickly business case so with my partner we have opened U separately Co insures we have opened some spvs in Luxembourg to give
(33:51) access to traditional VCS and private Equity let's say in us because survice Europeans will not have access to what does the problems first of all tickets uh as a minimum ticket of 500k second problem banks are struggling to send transfers it's very long they might be stopped for compliance purposes and third Med your bank of for example Italian Bank uh they have had an issue to send tickets to Luxembourg from their bank because one company Thea so C compliance it's very right now cautious about that so what we have done with my
(34:27) partner we tokenized all the funds so right now the tickets can be as small as 1K secondly the transfers as fast as few hours and third you don't need Bank anymore I think it's a revolution honestly and thank you so much for everyone being here thank you thank you for listening in and thank you all the panelists and I think we are all aligned if any of you have any questions you would like to discuss further things some of you will around here today or you will be able to see you around here or feel free to reach out directly you
(35:03) can just Google and find you on various different social medias so by that yeah question said that sometimes you have just like six months you talk about hyp cycle yeah yeah yeah hype cycle so we were measuring the the uh amount of liquidity on the wallets we were you know uh we saw thousands of wallets of the exchanges so we were uh um discovered this money flows to to how to measure how many months or I don't know you said about these phases so how you measure it because for investors is very important when we need to quit and when we need to
(35:43) you know very interesting question and the fact is I don't know I think this is just my reflection because since being part of projects struggling to survive and navigate whatever happening you're trying to understand when is the right time to do a launch how can we argue that this is something that's interesting and then looking back it showed that if you I was part of a project called my neighbor Alice as one example that was just after the be uh sale that you remember that did something like $69 million and that was
(36:16) like what is an nft so it was like that promoted the market for something that was interested and then we were lucky enough to launch right after and then when we did that it just lasted a few months we thought we could do more couple of more hits but the market died so it's just a reflection that it appeared that these two and that's not statistically strong enough to say that there's a method of measuring it it's just my reflection that you don't get all that much time just because we see this up turn Now does not mean that this
(36:44) is going to necessarily stay forever we probably need to be fast now oh okay well thank you I want to hear more about your research let's discuss that further outside right now give a warm Applause to the panel and feel free to join in on the next session also starting in slowly 2 minutes so just go out get something to drink raise your legs Etc feel free to join in on the infrastructure of this landscape so whether you're are a pure company doing this one from the project side or you're a defi project or you're
(37:26) a bank trafi whatever this is going to be highly relevant for you so feel free to join in in a couple of minutes stretch your legs and get something to drink pretty Swift and get back in here thank you [Music]